Is perfectionism a trait of BPD?

Initially I thought my wife had BPD, but the more I understand the disorder, I think my wife is just a Perfectionist.  She wants things done a certain way.  She has very strong opinions on how she should be treated.  Any deviation from it, and I am the villain, and she is the victim.  Any small slight by me is a major wound, and any moderate offense and she is ready to start talking about leaving.  When she married me she thought I was a diamond in the rough.  13 years later she can't accept that I am still a diamond in the rough.

We currently have several issues that are making things worse.  One, we are selling our house, so everything in the house has to be perfect, making her perfectionist nature worse.  Two, her knees are getting bad, and she can't do that much.  So she can not achieve her perfectionist vision on her own, and I haven't been willing to do it for her.

The main reason that I don't think she has BPD is she doesn't seem to have a poor self-image.  If anything, she thinks too highly of herself.  She also does not have any of the self-destructive behaviors that a person with BPD can have.

Has anyone else heard of perfectionists having BPD type behaviors?

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Do you think it could be something like OCD?

It doesn't sound like it.  OCD have to obsessively perform rituals over and over.  She cares about the end result, but I don't see her checking and rechecking things.  I think the main source of her perfectionist nature is her father - he demanded perfection, and I think she feels like she doesn't measure up in his eyes if she does less than perfection.  I see her being very concerned about what her parents think of her, and people in general.  She feels that I embarrass her in front of people, so she has chosen to cut off contact with most people.

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I'm kind of OCDish physically. Mentally? Not really. In relationships, there may be more to it:

www.psychcentral.com/lib/when-ocd-targets-your-relationship/

Brainstorming here... .maybe it doesn't fit, but it is BPDish.

Hi Fian,

It's good that you recognise and understand some of your wifes behaviours and are trying to put the pieces together. Without a true diagnosis, it's impossible to say for certain whether your wife has BPD. It could be she exhibits a number of cluster B traits or if could be, as Turkish mentions, something like OCD. All of us have traits we develop through life, whether it be from our FOO or from our peers, sometimes crossing the boundaries between clusters but not enough that would warrant a diagnosis.

In answer to your question though, my exN/BPDw was also a perfectionist and seeing the dynamic between her and her mother, it was easy to see why and where it came from. Her mother controlled everything and no matter how well something was done, it was never good enough. exMIL was a pure narcissist and as a result of that exN/BPDw was diagnosed with having both NPD and BPD, both being cluster B disorders.

Like with your wife, any deviation from perfection or from exN/BPDw's plan would lead to a major blowup and things got extremely nasty. In my situation though my exN/BPDw ticked enough boxes in both NPD and BPD to recieve a full diagnosis. The sad part was that her therapist could tell her because it was something she would never be able to accept. Being told of her diagnosis would have gone against everything that her NPD was telling her. She would see herself as imperfect and thus trigger a major destructive cycle. The only way she will ever know is if she makes the choice to seek help and she won't ever do that.

In terms of poor self image exN/BPDw didn't have poor self image either. She did in one sense but it was never her fault. If at any point she did begin to have poor self image, the blame was shifted immediately. In her eyes she was perfect so if she didn't look perfect, or looked run down or didn't like how she was feeling about herself it was then because of something that happened that was someone elses fault and not hers. When that happened she went to war on whoever she felt was responsible and often against me too.

So yes, it is entirely possible for someone who is a perfectionist to have BPD type behaviours but it's equally possible that someone can be a perfectionist without BPD behaviours too.

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Fian,

I don't know the details of your situation, but for years, I thought my wife was just an others-centered perfectionist, and somewhat depressed.  She always needed things to be done her way, exactly, and I bore the brunt of many rages for forgetting or failing to meet her standards (e.g., did you ever park a car and forget to engage the parking brake in the first 2 seconds? if so, don't come here)  Perfectionism => control issues => my codependency => her loss of respect for me => lots of unhappiness.

Now, after spending more time here, I think that she has some of the hallmarks (but not nearly all of the symptoms) of high functioning BPD. She has emotional dysregulation, denial, projecting, dysphoria, but not so much self harm or not even, poor self image.  Meanwhile, she has extremely high standards and cannot "let go" of things. The fact for me is, it doesn't really matter what she is or is not.  What matters is what I can handle, what I need to do to keep myself functional, alive, and ideally, somewhat mentally healthy (though I've a feeling that that train left long ago... .)

in short, I found reading the postings here, and trying the communication strategies, very helpful. Everyone here has had troubled relationships, they are all different, but watching other people go through h*ll is somehow reassuring.

if you want to chat about more details, I'm interested, or you can PM me.

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I was also thinking narcissistic traits. My Ex can be Queenish or narcissistic, but it's a thin veneer. Masterson terms it as BPD being the deflated false self, while NPD is the inflated false self.

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In my opinion our BPs possess different traits of their disorders. It is not possible to categorize people upon strict and defined rules or diagnoses.

My husband was a "bigger" perfectionist in his earlier years and this was very difficult for me. Seeing and hearing him could have led me to conclusion I am a lazy nobody who knows nothing and does nothing. I don´t know how I survived that.

Then he adapted himself and I think it was just because of the exposure to the rest of the world (where I belong). Even a BP can notice that other people usually don´t kill themselves with work, but still manage to live in decent circumstances.

Now he is still an extreme workacholic who states his demands for perfection only on a temporary basis. I know now it was his family who did this. It was his mother who has OCD and all sorts of other undiagnosed (but obvious) disorders and she modelled my husband and his older brother to her standards. This brother bears his share of guilt, because my husband told me how that man humiliated him in their childhood. He constantly told him that he is miserable and that he will remain zero and nothing in his life. Imagine growing up hearing that almost every day!

I've read a lot that BPD is not really "yes or no". That it's more a continual scale - but at some point there needs to be a "line" to say they "have BPD" or not.

My wife displays many of the BPD symptoms, but according to our therepist not enough to actually classify her as having BPD.

BPD or not, my wife is "highly emotional", and dealing with emotional thinking (vs "logical" thinking) requires me to have different skills. The techniques, philosophies and approches from this website and all the BPD books I've read are very helpful and have helped my relationship with her.

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Well, I guess you can say I snapped.  No outburst, but I grew tired of my wife's constant complaints and the negative moods.  I have told her that I am not interested in listening to her complaints, and have canceled future marriage counseling sessions.  She has interpreted that as me no longer working on our marriage - which I guess is a fair assessment.  She is currently a homemaker so she cannot support herself.  She is looking for a job, but I have told her that I am not kicking her out.  We can continue to live in the same house as long as she likes.

For now, we are civil, but not romantic (no surprise there).  I have told her that it is up to her if we continue to go out and do things together.  So far, she has opted to not go out.

Right now, I am personally feeling a lot of emotions.  Anger, sadness, sense of freedom.  I don't want my marriage to end, but neither could I continue with the way things were.

OCD and OCPD are not quite the same, but have crossover traits. People with OCD can be ritualistic, while people with OCPD can be more the rigid perfectionist types. Both are obsessive compulsives.

It is also possible to have traits of several disorders, but when you mention "perfectionism" OCPD is the first one to pop in my mind. Their brains are feeding them irrational thoughts, and if they do not obey the commands of the irrational side of the brain, it becomes almost painful and can make people volcanic. If your wife's brain is screaming "make this house perfect" and she is physically unable to do this, I could see how her reactions might look like BPD behavior. The communication tools here can still help you since either way, she's dealing with major inner turmoil.

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Hi Fian,

Well, I guess you can say I snapped.  No outburst, but I grew tired of my wife's constant complaints and the negative moods.  I have told her that I am not interested in listening to her complaints, and have canceled future marriage counseling sessions.  She has interpreted that as me no longer working on our marriage - which I guess is a fair assessment.  She is currently a homemaker so she cannot support herself.  She is looking for a job, but I have told her that I am not kicking her out.  We can continue to live in the same house as long as she likes.

dealing with that sort of thing can be exhausting. A pwBPD showing OCD symptoms is looking at the environment in b&w terms, judging it harshly and trying to fix it. Being subject to such constant unfair judgment is no fun at all  . Most likely she is applying the same sort of judgment to herself - which may be some sad consolation if you would not have to deal also with the fallout of this - a depressed and exhausted pwBPD.

Her getting a job may be really a good idea. Less freedom and more external constraints to deal with can help stabilizing her thinking.

For now, we are civil, but not romantic (no surprise there).  I have told her that it is up to her if we continue to go out and do things together.  So far, she has opted to not go out.

Her choice, not really a problem in need of fixing.

Right now, I am personally feeling a lot of emotions.  Anger, sadness, sense of freedom.  I don't want my marriage to end, but neither could I continue with the way things were.

Anger can be a sign that things are not right and need changing. It is great that you are - besides all the other emotional turmoil - also feeling some sense of freedom! The use of boundaries requires us to be willing to pay a price. Often we shy away from boundaries as the price that may be exacted seems to be too great. But when we are willing to pay the price - as the alternative is even less palatable - then boundaries become a very powerful tools to reshape situations. When pushing for change stay mindful that your wife is driven by shame, anxiety and fear. In the back of her mind she knows things are not right, however openly admitting may well be impossible - but that does not preclude changing some major aspects of her life.

Use your boundaries (and SET) wisely - you may have a lot more power than you realize.

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 8

yes!  I think so.  I really am sure my boyfriend is BPD.  Fits most of the profile... .physically abused during childhood, emotionally neglected, highly intelligent and very charming, has tendency to say that people are trying to get to him, throws wicked tantrums with the slightest provocation usually at me because of fear of abandonment, and usually has no recollection of what he said and takes no responsibility.  But he has an overly inflated ego.  He usually, in these states, will go on and on about himself, which is really boring and hard to take sometimes.

He says that when he first meets someone, he puts them on a pedestal, and he is always let down, seems to take it personally. He is also a workaholic, and expects other people to care about the job like he does.  This also seems to cause a great deal of stress for him.

It really helps me to see him with BPD, because I understand the behavior now much better and hope I can do a better job in communicating next time it happens.

Well, things took a 180.  We had a good talk, and established what we both want out of the other.  We both agreed to work towards those goals.  Had a great evening together.  I find it embarrassing that we can switch so quickly (like teenagers), but in the end I am happy that at least for now we are going in the right direction.  Personally, I think the main reason is prayer.  Even when things are bad, we are both praying that God fixes things.  And invariably that is what happens, even though the day before it seemed impossible.

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Hi Fian,

Well, things took a 180.  We had a good talk, and established what we both want out of the other.  We both agreed to work towards those goals.  Had a great evening together.  I find it embarrassing that we can switch so quickly (like teenagers), but in the end I am happy that at least for now we are going in the right direction.  Personally, I think the main reason is prayer.  Even when things are bad, we are both praying that God fixes things.  And invariably that is what happens, even though the day before it seemed impossible.

you may have had help from elsewhere but please do not discount your own contribution here. You taking a stand and clearly addressing that the situation was not sustainable was a necessary precondition for the change.

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I have told her that I am not interested in listening to her complaints, and have canceled future marriage counseling sessions.  She has interpreted that as me no longer working on our marriage

Validation / active listening helps to some extent - beyond that we are simply complaint dumps and enable the thinking that the problems are elsewhere. MC has a very mixed track record with BPD - what matters is that both sides work on themselves. It is good to see that you are rediscovering your self worth